WEYMOUTH: What do you say to those who claim that your son borrowed large sums of money illegally, and that campaign contributions sent to you from the U.S. may have been against the law?
SHARON: That is purely a political issue–an attempt to change the government using lies. If somebody wants to conduct an inquiry, I’m ready to give every answer. But I am busy conducting a war against terror, preparing this country for a war with Iraq, and talking about plans for the day after [the downfall of Saddam’s regime]. I don’t have time for these things.
If the United States attacks Iraq, how likely is it that Saddam Hussein will attack Israel?
The United States will take all necessary steps to prevent an attack on Israel. Everyone understands that if Israel is attacked, Israel will react.
Have the Americans done everything they can?
President Bush emphasized that if Israel is attacked before the American attack starts, Israel can do everything it needs to defend itself. But once the Americans are in action, everyone understands the sensitivity of the situation.
The majority of Israelis favor building a wall to separate Israel from the territories.
These electronic fences are another means to help fight terror, but not more than that.
So will you build a wall?
We will build it, but don’t expect it to answer the problem.
Is there any hope to get a deal with the Palestinians?
We could have gotten into dealing with the Palestinians if we had had somebody to talk to.
What do you think of the peace plan of the so-called quartet: the U.S., the U.N., the EU and Russia?
Oh, the quartet is nothing! Don’t take it seriously! There is [another] plan that will work.
What is the outline of this plan?
First, [Yasir] Arafat should be removed from an influential position. Secondly, a prime minister should be appointed. Third, reforms should be undertaken, mostly in the security organizations. Then there are problems on the financial side. I think our estimate of Arafat’s property is about $2 billion. Once the reforms have been completed, there should be free and democratic elections.
What will Israel do?
I am ready, if they have taken steps against terror, to recognize a fully demilitarized Palestinian state without final borders–having only police equipped with light weapons. Israel will control the external borders and will have the right to fly over the territory. Now we come to phase three: if there’s no terror whatsoever, then we will have to decide about the final borders.
Can you describe your relationship with President Bush?
The basis for the relationship is credibility. “Yes” is yes and “no” is no.
You said Iraq is hiding weapons of mass destruction in Syria.
I said that we have information that chemical and biological weapons were sent to Syria by Iraq. We don’t know if those weapons stayed in Syria or were sent elsewhere.
People say there’s a cloud hanging over Likud.
Now you take me back to this nonsense. I will not hesitate to take the hardest steps against anyone accused of using illegal means to get elected. You started talking about my son. My son Gilad, 36 years old, the father of three, was never interrogated by the police. That is the dirtiest piece of political maneuvering you can find.
Amram Mitzna, who became leader of the Labor Party in the November primaries, has vowed not to join a unity government with his Likud rival.
WEYMOUTH: How did you, a former general and mayor of Haifa, end up as head of the Labor Party?
MITZNA: I couldn’t sit on the fence watching my country break apart. The Labor Party and the peace camp collapsed after [former prime minister Ehud] Barak lost the elections, and since then the peace camp hasn’t initiated any alternative. The Labor Party joined the Likud government and lost its identity.
What do you offer that’s new?
I have said I will resume negotiations with the Palestinians and negotiate to reach an agreement on [the basis of] the same ideas that were raised by Barak and Clinton. One of the irrelevant questions that a lot of people are arguing about is whether I’m going to speak with Arafat or not.
It’s not that irrelevant if the president of the United States says that he thinks that Arafat should go, yet you say you would deal with Arafat.
I said that I will deal with the Palestinians. You have to resume negotiations. With whom do you negotiate? With the Americans? You have to negotiate with the Palestinians.
Does that mean Arafat?
The best would be to negotiate with Palestinian leaders that are below Arafat. Then the signing ceremony will be with Arafat. Only if he signs will the Palestinians feel confident. By the way, Ariel Sharon is dealing with Arafat. His son met Arafat several times.
Are there ongoing contacts with the Palestinian Authority?
Since the Barak initiative collapsed in the last two years there are at least three or four informal channels that are continuing to meet to try to reach a blueprint.
What is the rest of your plan?
My initiative has two parts. The other part is unilateral–meaning if negotiations with the Palestinians come to a dead end, we will take unilateral decisions. Israel must separate from the Palestinians.
You will build a wall?
Build a wall, build a fence. It’s a kind of ultimatum to the other side. Look, let’s sit down and try to end the conflict. Let’s put on the table all the sensitive issues. If we succeed, fine. If not, we will decide unilaterally what Israel’s vital interests are.
You said you would not join a unity government led by Ariel Sharon. Why?
We have to defend ourselves from Ariel Sharon’s ideas. Ariel Sharon is not ready to withdraw settlements, to separate from the Palestinians or to give up the illusion of Greater Israel. In the last two months Sharon is being accused of being responsible for so many decisions that corrupted the politics in Israel. Therefore the Labor Party should say loud and clear: if we succeed, we will bring change. If not, we will stay in the opposition and fight.
Sharon’s not really ready to make concessions?
He’s not ready. There is no security, and the economy is collapsing.
Is it Sharon’s fault or Arafat’s?
It’s Arafat’s fault. So, are we going to blame Arafat or are we going to initiate something to change it?
With the corruption charges against Sharon, why isn’t the Labor Party gaining in the polls?
This is a very interesting question. Most people in polls support my initiative, but when you ask them who they will vote for, they say Likud.
Why do you think this is?
This is the $1 billion question.
So they want to separate but they vote Likud.
They agree to separation, they agree to a two-state solution, they agree to the evacuation of settlements, they agree to everything. But they don’t trust that we will do it.
Will corruption stories continue to come out?
Yes, it’s just the tip of the iceberg. The current issues are not gone–they are under investigation. And I’m sure there will be many more.
